Curse

pamelf · Oct 08, 2008, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Because the other classes were ADDITIONS. End of story.

Bekkr · Oct 08, 2008, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

A bright spark like yourself should have noticed the emphasis added to my second use of the word core. Read as: required, necessary, what the game is built and balanced around. You could not go from Prophecies' game mechanics to a campaign without any one of the core classes; they represent the archetypes that the game is based around, which were set in stone when they released the first campaign. An assassin could not replace a warrior as a frontline heavy damage dealer, and rits function completely differently than necros.

Put it this way: you can PvP just fine with only the core classes. You cannot have a competitive GvG team without mesmers, monks, warriors, or rangers. I'm not saying that every build must include each of these classes, I'm saying that not being able to roll one of them would put you at a huge potential disadvantage, because the metagame (and especially balanced builds) calls for these classes very often. Eles are too much of a common rpg archetype in pve to not have been a part of every campaign. You might make a case for necros, but that's only one Proph-only class, leaving the other campaigns ahead of Prophecies. And lastly, do you really think it would have been wise for ANet to say, "Hey guys, hope you had fun playing class X for over a year, but we decided to drop support for them, and only them out of all 6 classes, in the next campaign. Have fun with your new completely unrelated class!" Eeeeeeeeepic QQ.

Okay, while I did misinterpret your point (admittedly easy to do when you use a term like "core", the name Anet has given to the original professions, in a way that means something else), even now that you've explained it, I disagree. Though your last point about the epic QQ is certainly a valid argument against, I still maintain that, had things gone differently, it could definitely have been made to work. It's all academic anyway though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Because the other classes were ADDITIONS. End of story.

Your post is lulzy. On a few different levels.

Pwny Ride · Oct 08, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bekkr

Your post is lulzy. On a few different levels.

Those levels are?

pamelf is correct, the Factions and Nightfall professions where simply additions to those in Prophecies, hence the Prophecies game being 'core'.

pamelf · Oct 08, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bekkr

Your post is lulzy. On a few different levels.

How? It is, in fact, the truth.

Bekkr · Oct 08, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

I didn't say it wasn't true, I said it was lulzy... a thing can be true and still not be the reason for another thing (the fallacy is called "correlation does not imply causation" if you want to look it up). The fact that the other professions were added has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the question of this thread. For example, let's say, hypothetically, that Arenanet HAD decided to make some of the professions Prophecies-only. The new professions would still have been additions, no?

The fact that this reasoning misses the point by a mile but is still put forth with that end-of-story-I-know-exactly-what's-up-here type fervor makes it even funnier.

IMO, and all that disclaimer jazz, of course.

pamelf · Oct 08, 2008, 08:34 AM // 08:34

It didn't miss the point at all. The original question is simply silly because the 6 are the original, and anything after that was an addition. They wouldn't take two professions OUT of the core because it simply wouldn't make any sense. The game was originally designed as it is, and the following designed as they were. There are no prophecies only professions because it was the first, and therefore anything after that is a bonus. I just don't see what reasoning prompted this pointless thread in the first place.

Shasgaliel · Oct 08, 2008, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

It didn't miss the point at all. The original question is simply silly because the 6 are the original, and anything after that was an addition. They wouldn't take two professions OUT of the core because it simply wouldn't make any sense. The game was originally designed as it is, and the following designed as they were. There are no prophecies only professions because it was the first, and therefore anything after that is a bonus. I just don't see what reasoning prompted this pointless thread in the first place.

Actually you can play those "additions" without having an original. They were designed so they can be played as a separate games. They were never named additions by Anet and such. GWEN is an expansion which can be with any of them which means that they are connectible sovereign campaigns of one game. Two of them have professions which others do not have which is not the case for the third one. I think that was the point of the OP. In my opinion you look at it from a point view of a person who started GW with Prophecies which is not the case for several GW players. People who start game from Factions or Nightfall look at their game as starter and Prophecies as a old campaign.

In my old guild I often got questions from people having NF only, what new professions will they get when they buy Prophecies.
-None
-oh that sucks I will buy Factions then.

Adding professions to other campaigns was an incentive for people to get them. People not having Prophecies do not have such incentive to get it (they have other ones of course).

pamelf · Oct 08, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

Actually you can play those "additions" without having an original. They were designed so they can be played as a separate games. They were never named additions by Anet and such. GWEN is an expansion which can be with any of them which means that they are connectible sovereign campaigns of one game. Two of them have professions which others do not have which is not the case for the third one. I think that was the point of the OP. In my opinion you look at it from a point view of a person who started GW with Prophecies which is not the case for several GW players. People who start game from Factions or Nightfall look at their game as starter and Prophecies as a old campaign.

In my old guild I often got questions from people having NF only, what new professions will they get when they buy Prophecies.
-None
-oh that sucks I will buy Factions then.

Adding professions to other campaigns was an incentive for people to get them. People not having Prophecies do not have such incentive to get it (they have other ones of course).

Yes, I totally know that, but the professions were an addition specific to those campaigns. Seriously, why is this even a discussion? It is what it is.

shru · Oct 08, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Pamelf is right. This is what we like to call beating the dead horse to a bloody pulp...
Whether or not you can discern why Anet called the 6 core classes "core" doesn't even make a difference, what's done is done.

Clarissa F · Oct 08, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Yes, I totally know that, but the professions were an addition specific to those campaigns. Seriously, why is this even a discussion? It is what it is.

This.

Someone mentioned elsewhere a point that fits this thread perfect. Remember, Guild Wars was created with PvP in mind, not as a strict RP/PvE game. The six core classes were created with this in mind. Factions gave the Ritualist and Assassin to take advantage of the mechanics of FA and AB PvP.

As more people were playing PvE, in Nightfall they gave the Paragon and Dervish skills to deal with high level mobs in the realm of torment, and gave heroes to give a player more team flexibility in their team, as well as the possibility to play solo, since a lot of people are used to this style from other games.

Leaving Prophecies as is gives people a chance to get the feel of what the game was like in the beginning, starting out as a newbie in pre-searing and working your way through the world, building your skill in the game. I think they did it right, overall, and I enjoy knowing I can play the original as I did when I started playing, without worrying about PvE skills, heroes or titles.

Sjeng · Oct 08, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

It didn't miss the point at all. The original question is simply silly because the 6 are the original, and anything after that was an addition. They wouldn't take two professions OUT of the core because it simply wouldn't make any sense. The game was originally designed as it is, and the following designed as they were. There are no prophecies only professions because it was the first, and therefore anything after that is a bonus. I just don't see what reasoning prompted this pointless thread in the first place.

I agree fully. my thoughts exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bekkr

Actually, it's "unfair" the way it currently is. If 2 of the original 6 professions had been kept out of Factions and NF, then all 3 original campaigns would have had 6 professions in them only, rather than 6,8, and 10 as it is now.

It's 6, 8 and 8. You can't make all 10 classes in NF.

PS: in before the lock...

Smile Like Umean It · Oct 08, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Because the other classes were ADDITIONS. End of story.

/thread
I'm glad someone understands that. There really is no point to this thread.

Winterclaw · Oct 08, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Okay the other classes were additions. Why does that mean Anet is totally forbidden from going back and added extra content to proph to even things out? Why can't something be added to proph?

Painbringer · Oct 08, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Becuase the chicken came before the egg

Martin Firestorm · Oct 08, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Okay the other classes were additions. Why does that mean Anet is totally forbidden from going back and added extra content to proph to even things out? Why can't something be added to proph?

There are some excpetions, but generally speaking the goal of anet's efforts is profit. This would be a siginificant change in an over 3 year old game. Other than the sheer joy of fan service, what would be in it for anet in doing this?

Bekkr · Oct 08, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

Seriously, why is this even a discussion? It is what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

Whether or not you can discern why Anet called the 6 core classes "core" doesn't even make a difference, what's done is done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smile Like Umean It

There really is no point to this thread.

Yeah, heaven forbid that people should discuss something hypothetical on a discussion forum.

If it's so pointless, why are you all in it? Actually, I'm wondering why I'm still in it... a saying comes to mind: something about arguing, bringing you down to their level, and beating you with experience.

That's what I get for trying to have an intelligent debate on teh internetz I guess....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

It's 6, 8 and 8. You can't make all 10 classes in NF.

Yeah, my mistake, I was thinking of the number of professions for which there are skills (too much elite capping of late). It doesn't change my point though.

Winterclaw · Oct 08, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

There are some excpetions, but generally speaking the goal of anet's efforts is profit. This would be a siginificant change in an over 3 year old game. Other than the sheer joy of fan service, what would be in it for anet in doing this?

Fair question. Seeing how Anet has profited by us buying the games, I think that if they show a willingness to stay committed to their products instead of dropping them as much as possible after release, it will buy loyalty in the community. That loyalty will mean when they release GW2 and it's expansions, there will be more people buying it because they know Anet will give it plenty of support.

Considering how there are a lot of GW1 players who have been disenfranchised by the progress of the series and what Anet has announced for GW2, I think that fan support at this time would be important to them and to their future success.

In other words, it would make people more willing to buy their future products and that is what their marketing system is based on.

Clarissa F · Oct 08, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

I'm smelling a roundabout way of making a "Heroes for Prophecies" thread, which has been done already, and I have a good nose for retread threads.

edit: v v I hate it when I'm right.

illidan009 · Oct 09, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

B/c that would screw everyting up. Think about it: If you suddenly added new profs to Proph(lawl bad pun) it would be MADNESS. If you took away let's say the warrior and the ranger from factions and nf...oh shit is there gonna be A LOT of QQ.

Pwny Ride · Oct 09, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Fair question. Seeing how Anet has profited by us buying the games, I think that if they show a willingness to stay committed to their products instead of dropping them as much as possible after release, it will buy loyalty in the community. That loyalty will mean when they release GW2 and it's expansions, there will be more people buying it because they know Anet will give it plenty of support.

Considering how there are a lot of GW1 players who have been disenfranchised by the progress of the series and what Anet has announced for GW2, I think that fan support at this time would be important to them and to their future success.

In other words, it would make people more willing to buy their future products and that is what their marketing system is based on.